Comments on: EDITORIAL: It’s not the end of times – just the end of Bush http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/ ... with attention to the unseen Wed, 23 May 2012 03:13:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Focus: Strait of Hormuz incident « The iRanWonk http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1118 Focus: Strait of Hormuz incident « The iRanWonk Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:28:04 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1118 [...] Kaveh Afrasiabi argues that there is no “international water” in the Strait of Hormuz and discusses the UNCLOS is detail (Asia Times). Paul Woodward supports the argument (War in Context). [...] [...] Kaveh Afrasiabi argues that there is no “international water” in the Strait of Hormuz and discusses the UNCLOS is detail (Asia Times). Paul Woodward supports the argument (War in Context). [...]

]]> By: Robert Consoli http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1114 Robert Consoli Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:43:22 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1114 Hello Andrew John, If the straits of Hormuz have 8 miles of international water at their narrowest and a U.S. Navy warship can travel about 30 mph (I know they use nautical miles but I'm too lazy) then it would take 16 minutes for a U.S. Navy warship to travel 8 miles. Best, Bob Consoli Hello Andrew John,
If the straits of Hormuz have 8 miles of international water at their narrowest and a U.S. Navy warship can travel about 30 mph (I know they use nautical miles but I’m too lazy) then it would take 16 minutes for a U.S. Navy warship to travel 8 miles.
Best,
Bob Consoli

]]> By: Steve B http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1109 Steve B Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:45:53 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1109 Washington makes the rules and others had better follow them or else!! that is the reality of how this planet is now run by those who control our national government. Soon after he started his midadventure in Iraq in 1990 the elder Bush succinctly told the world, "What WE say goes!!" He did not need to describe who "WE" was as most of the world knew it was not the average grunts fighting wars that his elite friends make sure others do the fighting to achieve U.S. global domination. The waters surrounding Iran are not different than the Gulf of Sidra where our navy routinely flaunted its power against Libya going to far that our "Top Guns" shot down two Libyan planes on sight without a war being declared to justify such aggression. This nonsense will end because history has shown us empires are unsustainable and eventually end up in the dumpster. Steve, US Navy, World War 2. Washington makes the rules and others had better follow them or else!! that is the reality of how this planet is now run by those who control our national government. Soon after he started his midadventure in Iraq in 1990 the elder Bush succinctly told the world, “What WE say goes!!” He did not need to describe who “WE” was as most of the world knew it was not the average grunts fighting wars that his elite friends make sure others do the fighting to achieve U.S. global domination. The waters surrounding Iran are not different than the Gulf of Sidra where our navy routinely flaunted its power against Libya going to far that our “Top Guns” shot down two Libyan planes on sight without a war being declared to justify such aggression. This nonsense will end because history has shown us empires are unsustainable and eventually end up in the dumpster. Steve, US Navy, World War 2.

]]> By: jojo http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1107 jojo Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:56:24 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1107 To John Andrew---What if the Chineses navy just happen to sail down the St Lawerence River 30 mph.Reason--protecting their interests-- I hope USA has a bad taste of a depression for years to come Johnie Boy--good Fixer! To John Andrew—What if the Chineses navy just happen to sail down the St Lawerence River 30 mph.Reason–protecting their interests– I hope USA has a bad taste of a depression for years to come Johnie Boy–good Fixer!

]]> By: Focus: Strait of Hormuz incident « The iRan Wonk http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1106 Focus: Strait of Hormuz incident « The iRan Wonk Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:19:58 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1106 [...] Kaveh Afrasiabi argues that there is no “international water” in the Strait of Hormuz and discusses the UNCLOS is detail (Asia Times). Paul Woodward supports the argument (War in Context). [...] [...] Kaveh Afrasiabi argues that there is no “international water” in the Strait of Hormuz and discusses the UNCLOS is detail (Asia Times). Paul Woodward supports the argument (War in Context). [...]

]]> By: Andy http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1102 Andy Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:46:30 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1102 What if Iran had invaded Mexico under false pretences (those nasty Mexican weapons of mass destruction) and had it's ships operating just a few miles off the gulf coast of Texas and had called America an 'Axis of evil' country? Let's keep it in context. What if Iran had invaded Mexico under false pretences (those nasty Mexican weapons of mass destruction) and had it’s ships operating just a few miles off the gulf coast of Texas and had called America an ‘Axis of evil’ country? Let’s keep it in context.

]]> By: Andrew John http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1101 Andrew John Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:32:55 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1101 The straits of Hormuz at its narrowest is 32 miles, most is more than 50 miles. So at its narrowest there is 8 miles of international water. Considering naval war ships can travel over 30 miles on hour, this would mean they are in this narrow part for a little more than a minute. The persian gulf is not an iranian lake. The straits of Hormuz at its narrowest is 32 miles, most is more than 50 miles. So at its narrowest there is 8 miles of international water. Considering naval war ships can travel over 30 miles on hour, this would mean they are in this narrow part for a little more than a minute. The persian gulf is not an iranian lake.

]]> By: Caitlyn http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1099 Caitlyn Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:19:16 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1099 There are no international waters in the Strait, but there are at the end of the strait. The incident with the Iranian patrol boats occurred after transit when the ships were about 15 miles from shore. According to an Iranian press conference on the 13th, the actual transit was lawful and normal. An Iranian shore station queried the ships for identification, position and course and the ships replied (this is when one of the ships said it was exercising the right of straits transit). According to the Iranians that later queried the ships after the had moved to the Gulf. The spoke with another ship that at that time said they were in international waters. After that, the Iranian patrol boats, which had been dispatched earlier, caught up with the navy ships, queried them for information and did their various maneuvers. There is a world of difference between the events reported by the people in the region (both US and Iranian) and the portrayal made by the President. I don't believe that means that the people on the scene lied about their position or the events that took place. There are no international waters in the Strait, but there are at the end of the strait. The incident with the Iranian patrol boats occurred after transit when the ships were about 15 miles from shore.

According to an Iranian press conference on the 13th, the actual transit was lawful and normal. An Iranian shore station queried the ships for identification, position and course and the ships replied (this is when one of the ships said it was exercising the right of straits transit).

According to the Iranians that later queried the ships after the had moved to the Gulf. The spoke with another ship that at that time said they were in international waters. After that, the Iranian patrol boats, which had been dispatched earlier, caught up with the navy ships, queried them for information and did their various maneuvers.

There is a world of difference between the events reported by the people in the region (both US and Iranian) and the portrayal made by the President. I don’t believe that means that the people on the scene lied about their position or the events that took place.

]]> By: Badtux http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1096 Badtux Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:45:02 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1096 I was amused by the Asia Times article talking about legal actions against the U.S. for abusing the right of transit passage. The U.S. recognizes international law only when the U.S. feels like it. Any judgement in an international court of law would be unenforcible short of enforcing it via missiles and guns, which at this point in time would be disaster for any power trying it. Iran's leaders may talk a tough talk for domestic consumption, but they're not nuts, and aren't going to fire the first shot regardless of what an international court tells them their rights are... I was amused by the Asia Times article talking about legal actions against the U.S. for abusing the right of transit passage. The U.S. recognizes international law only when the U.S. feels like it. Any judgement in an international court of law would be unenforcible short of enforcing it via missiles and guns, which at this point in time would be disaster for any power trying it. Iran’s leaders may talk a tough talk for domestic consumption, but they’re not nuts, and aren’t going to fire the first shot regardless of what an international court tells them their rights are…

]]> By: UNDER THE RADAR « DUCKPOND http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1095 UNDER THE RADAR « DUCKPOND Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:04:32 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1095 [...] fact was at least point out byKaveh L Afrasiabi, writing in Asia Times.(via The War in Context). Paul Woodward goes on to note: Let’s repeat that: there are no international waters in the Straits of Hormuz. The U.S. ships [...] [...] fact was at least point out byKaveh L Afrasiabi, writing in Asia Times.(via The War in Context). Paul Woodward goes on to note: Let’s repeat that: there are no international waters in the Straits of Hormuz. The U.S. ships [...]

]]> By: Paul Woodward http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1094 Paul Woodward Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:40:44 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1094 As David points out, the shipping lanes -- as marked on <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Strait_of_hormuz_full.jpg" rel="nofollow">this map</a> -- stay inside Omani waters on the turn of the Hormuz Straits. However, the inbound lane, soon after the turn, enters Iranian waters, and the fact that a US shipman, addressing an Iranian made reference to "transit passage" seems to strongly infer that the US ships were at that point (as they must frequently be) moving along the inbound shipping lane inside Iranian territorial waters. Coordinates from the beginning to the end of the encounter could of course provide some clarity here. That said, the Pentagon has already undermined its credibility as it has repeatedly revised its account of what happened. As David points out, the shipping lanes — as marked on this map — stay inside Omani waters on the turn of the Hormuz Straits. However, the inbound lane, soon after the turn, enters Iranian waters, and the fact that a US shipman, addressing an Iranian made reference to “transit passage” seems to strongly infer that the US ships were at that point (as they must frequently be) moving along the inbound shipping lane inside Iranian territorial waters. Coordinates from the beginning to the end of the encounter could of course provide some clarity here. That said, the Pentagon has already undermined its credibility as it has repeatedly revised its account of what happened.

]]> By: David http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/comment-page-1/#comment-1092 David Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:20:31 +0000 http://warincontext.org/2008/01/14/editorial-its-not-the-end-of-times-just-the-end-of-bush/#comment-1092 Agreed, there are no international waters in the Straits, but the wikipedia maps show the designated shipping lanes as being in Omani, not Iranian waters. Has either side released coordinates for the encounter? Agreed, there are no international waters in the Straits, but the wikipedia maps show the designated shipping lanes as being in Omani, not Iranian waters. Has either side released coordinates for the encounter?

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