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	<title>Comments on: Andrew Bacevich: the United States, Israel, and the failure of the western way of war</title>
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	<link>http://warincontext.org/2010/07/29/andrew-bacevich-the-united-states-israel-and-the-failure-of-the-western-way-of-war/</link>
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		<title>By: delia ruhe</title>
		<link>http://warincontext.org/2010/07/29/andrew-bacevich-the-united-states-israel-and-the-failure-of-the-western-way-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-14507</link>
		<dc:creator>delia ruhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warincontext.org/?p=8240#comment-14507</guid>
		<description>War can never be made useful again.  Why it&#039;s taking Israel and the US so long to realize that is a mystery to me.  Well, I guess both economies would go flat-busted if they couldn&#039;t peddle their weapons around the globe.  And when they&#039;ve go everybody loaded up, they have to maintain their own armies in case some of those customers want to bomb them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War can never be made useful again.  Why it&#8217;s taking Israel and the US so long to realize that is a mystery to me.  Well, I guess both economies would go flat-busted if they couldn&#8217;t peddle their weapons around the globe.  And when they&#8217;ve go everybody loaded up, they have to maintain their own armies in case some of those customers want to bomb them.</p>
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		<title>By: DE Teodoru</title>
		<link>http://warincontext.org/2010/07/29/andrew-bacevich-the-united-states-israel-and-the-failure-of-the-western-way-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-14433</link>
		<dc:creator>DE Teodoru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warincontext.org/?p=8240#comment-14433</guid>
		<description>Prof Bacevich is the straw we all seize to avoid sinking...Fukuyama is the PeterPan academic who won&#039;t grow up to compexity. And then there today&#039;s Rasputinists, Likud.

Actually, both US and Israel face a common demographic threat: their &quot;WHITENESS&quot; is in danger. If you look at Americans, anti-racism was most prominent among Jews and pro-racism most common among East Euro ethnics. Similarly, in Israel the most common racists are the East Euro Ashkenazis. Mizrahi Jews were treated like dirt, their children stolen and given to Ashkenazis who couldn&#039;t reproduce to raise as &quot;White Jews.&quot; For decades, Israel was held to account for its racism by the Mizrahi BLACK PANTHER MOVEMENT. But in America, many Jews became racists, not because they had always deemed blacks inferior as did the East Euro Ashkenazis but because blacks would not demonstrate for Zionism on command. I recall their rage when Martin Luther King or other prominent black leaders would not show up at their Soviet Jewry Inc events.  Thirty to forty years later the neocons have all but shouted-out their racism. A careful look at Zionism will show that it is
 indeed
 racist for it did not speak of Jews as a nation but as a race. Zionism&#039;s founder had no Jewish cultural attributes as he was totally an assimilated European. His clamor was over how the JEWISH RACE was treated by the Europeans. We&#039;re not in post-History but in post-Fukuyama, heading from post-McChrystal to post-Petreaus and post his Peanut Gallery agitprops (Biddle, Kagans, etc).

Israelis were for the most part East Euros who sought to leave their native part of Europe where they were so oppressed and brutalized only to do onto Arabs as was done onto them. This was to be expected given that Zionists were culturally East Euros who happen to be Jewish. In fact, with the end of Communism, Israel was plagued with massive return to East Europe of Jews who had been obtained by Israel from Communist regimes. These Jews were bought just as Jews were bought from the Nazis. Hitler even paid the Zionists to take Jews from Germany to Palestine. However, feeling inferior to these &quot;yekes&quot; refugees -- just as most East Euro felt towards the Germans-- the Zionists wasted these high quality people. For example, though most “yekes” worked as farm hands on kibbutzes, they lived in Tel Aviv and commuted to and from their jobs by bus. One morning a pregnant woman on the bus suddenly felt that she was giving birth. The man sitting next to her
 yelled out: &quot;Is there a doctor on the bus?&quot; In response, six ex-doctors, now farmhands rose to her aid. The driver stopped his bus, turned to the passengers and announced: &quot;On this bus I do all the deliveries!&quot; It turns out he had been the medical director of one of Berlin&#039;s top Ob/Gyn clinics. Imagine if Jews had done that which they do best, such as medicine, and let the Arabs do the farming in that barren desert, which only they knew how to do. But that could not be because the Jewish Agency established a rule:&quot; Only Jewish hands can work the Jewish land.&quot;

Zionists that defined themselves as a race invariably felt attracted to apartheid South Africa. All the while seeking African support in the UN, the Israelis collaborated with the Afrikaner regime and helped it develop nuclear weapons. In a very pro-Israel book you can still get a flavor for the &quot;we-racist-brothers&quot; affinity between the Israelis and the Afrikaners.

http://www.amazon.com/Unspoken-Alliance-Israels-Relationship-Apartheid/dp/0375425462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1280445477&amp;sr=1-1

Now, just as they used the South African Jews as go between to play the race card, today they are using the Jewish neocons to play the race card in America. One can note the “us Judeo-Christian” fundamentalists who accept the Jews as “God’s chosen people” asked to accept the Israelis as “God’s chosen people.”  Jimmy Carter wrote that these “chosen” are not observant, making them unworthy of that title. That’ why Zionists went after him, for he was costing them their voting bloc. Most Jews reject in silence Zionist racism. They just won’t talk about it. But the neocons played that card to the hilt during the Bush and Obama presidencies. Fukuyama, on the other hand, obviously can’t be a “white supremacist” as he is of Japanese ancestry. At one point he spoke up and asked how it is that the only place where the US must “bring” democracy all of a sudden by the barrel of a gun is always the Muslim World where it is rejected
 as serving Israel? Why not support it in places more responsive to it? The neocons responded by calling him an “anti-Semite.” It seems he backed down.

I tell this story because it seems to have had more to do with academics needing Saban’s money that the neocons manage as after this article Fukuyama dropped the issue:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_bruck?printable=true

Nowhere does he challenge the neocon insistence that they should guided American into their “World War IV” against Islam. Now that it has become a “strategic liability,” the neocons insist that Israel must be America’s top priority.

Now indeed, Obama is trying to get out of Bush’s wars without losing them. For this the neocons are slandering him as it was expected that the US would be Israel’s mad dog on a leach terrorizing Muslims on command. So when Obama broke with that perspective he was called an “anti-Semite,” just like Fukuyama.

Israel is running out of people. Less that 25% of world Jewry lives there and many of those are scheming to get out. The old racist struggle is losing steam in Israel as it had in South Africa once it saw itself considered a pariah. But Israelis still believe that they control the US and can keep America as an engorged placenta from which Israel subsists as a 62 y/o fetus of a state with a massive army and ever expanding borders through extermination. Israel could balance the Sunnis and Shia, guiding them all into a peaceful modernity so it can be integrated into the region. But unfortunately, the “chosen race” issue prevails for Israel as it was not only supposed to provide a refuge for Jews so they could escape oppression— nevertheless, 75% of them live in Diaspora—but also a means of maintaining a fictitious racial purity by avoiding the assimilation which is dissolving Jews all over the world into goyim societies. That is why Sharon declared
 that any Jew that is not settled in Israel by 2020 will lose his Jewishness. Israel still seeks to achieve the state heralded on its flag: an all Jewish nation between the Nile and Euphrates, the two lines, one above and one below the Star of David. To most Jews that is passé, an ancient dream. Even Israeli officials carry multiple passports, just in case. So the Likud idea is to create an American Krystalnacht that will cease this racial exsanguination assimilating into goy society. Saban said it himself: buy politicians, buy media and set up propagandistic think tanks. And we see that this billionaire neocon has the same attitude towards renegade Jews, calling them “self-hating Jews” as neocons. Recently, Oliver Stone expressed an opinion that, though accurate, Saban didn’t like. So he posted a little blurb on HuffPost, I guess part of his “controlled” media empire, calling for a Zionist Hollywood BLACKLIST as in the 1950s against
 Communists. The point is that Diaspora Jews—like the Diaspora itself— are supposed to become a nutrient medium on which Israel grows like a parasite. Stone fought for America and is a Jew who gives generously to poor Americans. Nevertheless if the “entrepreneurial” neocons don’t like what he said, then he should be “retired.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haim-saban/shame-on-oliver-stone_b_662132.html?ir=Yahoo

It bothers him not in the least that he would impose in America the same oppression he came here to escape. MOST JEWS SEE THIS AS DISGUSTING. But they express their disgust in silence. Only the neocons and their minions express themselves hysterically like attack dogs hoping to claim that they alone are the “voice of American Jews.”

An attempt was made to usurp our nation’s freedoms and is ongoing, making this nation a reliable flunky of Israel. The few behind this notion have a geriatric mensch-hood issue to resolve so in their old age go on this paroxysmal rampage. And they won’t stop until American blood and steel makes Israel “whole”—the nation between the two rivers, Nile and Euphrates. Alas, most Jews deem Israel a nice place to visit but not to live and how those who sought to expand Israel using a “MADE IN USA IRON WALL” will deal with the lack of Jews as olims who buy into their racist notion (even neocons live in luxury in “Eurabia,” meaning Arab dominated Europe, making their money even from Arab investments. My fear is over the fate that waits Diaspora Jews who refuse to buy into this racist notion-- at the very least 75% of World Jewry who wouldn’t live there. Israel’s problem is not land but people as 78% of the settlements are empty. Will Israel
 force Jews to make the aliyah by provoking an American Krystalnacht?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof Bacevich is the straw we all seize to avoid sinking&#8230;Fukuyama is the PeterPan academic who won&#8217;t grow up to compexity. And then there today&#8217;s Rasputinists, Likud.</p>
<p>Actually, both US and Israel face a common demographic threat: their &#8220;WHITENESS&#8221; is in danger. If you look at Americans, anti-racism was most prominent among Jews and pro-racism most common among East Euro ethnics. Similarly, in Israel the most common racists are the East Euro Ashkenazis. Mizrahi Jews were treated like dirt, their children stolen and given to Ashkenazis who couldn&#8217;t reproduce to raise as &#8220;White Jews.&#8221; For decades, Israel was held to account for its racism by the Mizrahi BLACK PANTHER MOVEMENT. But in America, many Jews became racists, not because they had always deemed blacks inferior as did the East Euro Ashkenazis but because blacks would not demonstrate for Zionism on command. I recall their rage when Martin Luther King or other prominent black leaders would not show up at their Soviet Jewry Inc events.  Thirty to forty years later the neocons have all but shouted-out their racism. A careful look at Zionism will show that it is<br />
 indeed<br />
 racist for it did not speak of Jews as a nation but as a race. Zionism&#8217;s founder had no Jewish cultural attributes as he was totally an assimilated European. His clamor was over how the JEWISH RACE was treated by the Europeans. We&#8217;re not in post-History but in post-Fukuyama, heading from post-McChrystal to post-Petreaus and post his Peanut Gallery agitprops (Biddle, Kagans, etc).</p>
<p>Israelis were for the most part East Euros who sought to leave their native part of Europe where they were so oppressed and brutalized only to do onto Arabs as was done onto them. This was to be expected given that Zionists were culturally East Euros who happen to be Jewish. In fact, with the end of Communism, Israel was plagued with massive return to East Europe of Jews who had been obtained by Israel from Communist regimes. These Jews were bought just as Jews were bought from the Nazis. Hitler even paid the Zionists to take Jews from Germany to Palestine. However, feeling inferior to these &#8220;yekes&#8221; refugees &#8212; just as most East Euro felt towards the Germans&#8211; the Zionists wasted these high quality people. For example, though most “yekes” worked as farm hands on kibbutzes, they lived in Tel Aviv and commuted to and from their jobs by bus. One morning a pregnant woman on the bus suddenly felt that she was giving birth. The man sitting next to her<br />
 yelled out: &#8220;Is there a doctor on the bus?&#8221; In response, six ex-doctors, now farmhands rose to her aid. The driver stopped his bus, turned to the passengers and announced: &#8220;On this bus I do all the deliveries!&#8221; It turns out he had been the medical director of one of Berlin&#8217;s top Ob/Gyn clinics. Imagine if Jews had done that which they do best, such as medicine, and let the Arabs do the farming in that barren desert, which only they knew how to do. But that could not be because the Jewish Agency established a rule:&#8221; Only Jewish hands can work the Jewish land.&#8221;</p>
<p>Zionists that defined themselves as a race invariably felt attracted to apartheid South Africa. All the while seeking African support in the UN, the Israelis collaborated with the Afrikaner regime and helped it develop nuclear weapons. In a very pro-Israel book you can still get a flavor for the &#8220;we-racist-brothers&#8221; affinity between the Israelis and the Afrikaners.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Unspoken-Alliance-Israels-Relationship-Apartheid/dp/0375425462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1280445477&#038;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Unspoken-Alliance-Israels-Relationship-Apartheid/dp/0375425462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1280445477&#038;sr=1-1</a></p>
<p>Now, just as they used the South African Jews as go between to play the race card, today they are using the Jewish neocons to play the race card in America. One can note the “us Judeo-Christian” fundamentalists who accept the Jews as “God’s chosen people” asked to accept the Israelis as “God’s chosen people.”  Jimmy Carter wrote that these “chosen” are not observant, making them unworthy of that title. That’ why Zionists went after him, for he was costing them their voting bloc. Most Jews reject in silence Zionist racism. They just won’t talk about it. But the neocons played that card to the hilt during the Bush and Obama presidencies. Fukuyama, on the other hand, obviously can’t be a “white supremacist” as he is of Japanese ancestry. At one point he spoke up and asked how it is that the only place where the US must “bring” democracy all of a sudden by the barrel of a gun is always the Muslim World where it is rejected<br />
 as serving Israel? Why not support it in places more responsive to it? The neocons responded by calling him an “anti-Semite.” It seems he backed down.</p>
<p>I tell this story because it seems to have had more to do with academics needing Saban’s money that the neocons manage as after this article Fukuyama dropped the issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_bruck?printable=true" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_bruck?printable=true</a></p>
<p>Nowhere does he challenge the neocon insistence that they should guided American into their “World War IV” against Islam. Now that it has become a “strategic liability,” the neocons insist that Israel must be America’s top priority.</p>
<p>Now indeed, Obama is trying to get out of Bush’s wars without losing them. For this the neocons are slandering him as it was expected that the US would be Israel’s mad dog on a leach terrorizing Muslims on command. So when Obama broke with that perspective he was called an “anti-Semite,” just like Fukuyama.</p>
<p>Israel is running out of people. Less that 25% of world Jewry lives there and many of those are scheming to get out. The old racist struggle is losing steam in Israel as it had in South Africa once it saw itself considered a pariah. But Israelis still believe that they control the US and can keep America as an engorged placenta from which Israel subsists as a 62 y/o fetus of a state with a massive army and ever expanding borders through extermination. Israel could balance the Sunnis and Shia, guiding them all into a peaceful modernity so it can be integrated into the region. But unfortunately, the “chosen race” issue prevails for Israel as it was not only supposed to provide a refuge for Jews so they could escape oppression— nevertheless, 75% of them live in Diaspora—but also a means of maintaining a fictitious racial purity by avoiding the assimilation which is dissolving Jews all over the world into goyim societies. That is why Sharon declared<br />
 that any Jew that is not settled in Israel by 2020 will lose his Jewishness. Israel still seeks to achieve the state heralded on its flag: an all Jewish nation between the Nile and Euphrates, the two lines, one above and one below the Star of David. To most Jews that is passé, an ancient dream. Even Israeli officials carry multiple passports, just in case. So the Likud idea is to create an American Krystalnacht that will cease this racial exsanguination assimilating into goy society. Saban said it himself: buy politicians, buy media and set up propagandistic think tanks. And we see that this billionaire neocon has the same attitude towards renegade Jews, calling them “self-hating Jews” as neocons. Recently, Oliver Stone expressed an opinion that, though accurate, Saban didn’t like. So he posted a little blurb on HuffPost, I guess part of his “controlled” media empire, calling for a Zionist Hollywood BLACKLIST as in the 1950s against<br />
 Communists. The point is that Diaspora Jews—like the Diaspora itself— are supposed to become a nutrient medium on which Israel grows like a parasite. Stone fought for America and is a Jew who gives generously to poor Americans. Nevertheless if the “entrepreneurial” neocons don’t like what he said, then he should be “retired.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haim-saban/shame-on-oliver-stone_b_662132.html?ir=Yahoo" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haim-saban/shame-on-oliver-stone_b_662132.html?ir=Yahoo</a></p>
<p>It bothers him not in the least that he would impose in America the same oppression he came here to escape. MOST JEWS SEE THIS AS DISGUSTING. But they express their disgust in silence. Only the neocons and their minions express themselves hysterically like attack dogs hoping to claim that they alone are the “voice of American Jews.”</p>
<p>An attempt was made to usurp our nation’s freedoms and is ongoing, making this nation a reliable flunky of Israel. The few behind this notion have a geriatric mensch-hood issue to resolve so in their old age go on this paroxysmal rampage. And they won’t stop until American blood and steel makes Israel “whole”—the nation between the two rivers, Nile and Euphrates. Alas, most Jews deem Israel a nice place to visit but not to live and how those who sought to expand Israel using a “MADE IN USA IRON WALL” will deal with the lack of Jews as olims who buy into their racist notion (even neocons live in luxury in “Eurabia,” meaning Arab dominated Europe, making their money even from Arab investments. My fear is over the fate that waits Diaspora Jews who refuse to buy into this racist notion&#8211; at the very least 75% of World Jewry who wouldn’t live there. Israel’s problem is not land but people as 78% of the settlements are empty. Will Israel<br />
 force Jews to make the aliyah by provoking an American Krystalnacht?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Hoare</title>
		<link>http://warincontext.org/2010/07/29/andrew-bacevich-the-united-states-israel-and-the-failure-of-the-western-way-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-14418</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Hoare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warincontext.org/?p=8240#comment-14418</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the intention here but must suggest that Andrew Bacevich makes something of the same kind of mistake that Fukuyama did, in looking at too few samples from the data. 

I suggest that war has never, alone, been a decider of issues, mostly ones of territory and ownership. What has been the decisive element in all human conflict has been the follow-up in the peace -- mostly, in those conflicts that proved decisive, the ethnic cleansing that was made possible by the defeat of one side.

To take only two examples (a very small sample I admit, but space and time are both limited). The conquest of the Roman colony of Britain by the Anglo-Saxons was a history of almost continuous warfare interspersed by periods of assimilation of the helpless Britons. Not for nothing was the name, Welsh, derived from the Anglo-Saxon word, slave. Those who objected were murdered.

My second example is the Anglo-Saxon conquest of the aboriginal tribes of America -- a continual process of invasive wars and assimilation/displacement. The history records continual massacres and ethnic cleansing.

Warfare has always been a successful decider of issues when its second phase is let loose. It can be again if we are not careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the intention here but must suggest that Andrew Bacevich makes something of the same kind of mistake that Fukuyama did, in looking at too few samples from the data. </p>
<p>I suggest that war has never, alone, been a decider of issues, mostly ones of territory and ownership. What has been the decisive element in all human conflict has been the follow-up in the peace &#8212; mostly, in those conflicts that proved decisive, the ethnic cleansing that was made possible by the defeat of one side.</p>
<p>To take only two examples (a very small sample I admit, but space and time are both limited). The conquest of the Roman colony of Britain by the Anglo-Saxons was a history of almost continuous warfare interspersed by periods of assimilation of the helpless Britons. Not for nothing was the name, Welsh, derived from the Anglo-Saxon word, slave. Those who objected were murdered.</p>
<p>My second example is the Anglo-Saxon conquest of the aboriginal tribes of America &#8212; a continual process of invasive wars and assimilation/displacement. The history records continual massacres and ethnic cleansing.</p>
<p>Warfare has always been a successful decider of issues when its second phase is let loose. It can be again if we are not careful.</p>
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